Hey, everyone, and welcome back for another Book Bites, where, as always, we're serving up big ideas in small, delicious bites. And today we're going to be looking at a book that touches on something pretty sensitive. Yeah.
The State of Affairs, Rethinking Infidelity by Esther Perel. It was published back in 2017, so it's had a little while to kind of make its way into the world. And boy, has it made its way into the world.
Over 21,000 reviews on Goodreads, a 4.36 rating. That's pretty impressive. Yeah.
Yeah. People are clearly paying attention to this, and I think for good reason, right? This is a... Absolutely. I think the sheer volume of reviews speaks to how many people are really looking for answers or guidance or just trying to make sense of this really complicated subject.
And the fact that Esther Perel herself is such a well-respected voice, I think, really adds to the credibility and the interest in this book. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we've talked about her before on the show.
You know, she also wrote Mating in Captivity, which, yeah, which we did a deep dive on. She's a renowned psychotherapist. She specializes in relationships and sexuality.
Right. And she speaks nine languages. Yeah.
I mean, think about that. That's incredible. That's amazing.
Yeah, it speaks to her understanding of different cultures and different perspectives. Right. And, you know, I also have to mention her TED Talk on infidelity has millions of views.
Yeah, I've seen it. So clearly she knows how to connect with people on this topic. Absolutely.
She's a captivating speaker. So today on this Book Bytes, what we really want to do is, you know, kind of extract those key insights from the state of affairs and try to help all of us, you know, our wonderful listeners listening right now, try to grasp the, you know, the reality of infidelity. It's a very nuanced thing and there's a lot to unpack.
Yeah, it's way more complex than we often think. Right. And there are potential lessons here for all of our relationships, whether or not, you know, we've experienced infidelity personally or not.
For sure. Because at its core, it's about understanding human desire and connection. Exactly.
So to kind of kick things off, Perel really, you know, kind of comes out of the gate and she she challenges that traditional view of infidelity as like a moral failing. Yeah, she really pushes back against that black and white thinking. Right.
That it's simply good or bad or right or wrong. And and she says that, you know, infidelity provides this powerful lens through which we can examine our values, our human nature. Yeah.
Like, what does it actually tell us about ourselves and our relationships? Right. And that that core drive for connection and pleasure, which she calls Eros. I love that term.
Eros. It's so evocative. It is so.
And I think, you know, to put it in a way that maybe is a little more conversational. Yeah. You know, it's not just about someone being bad.
Right. Exactly. There's a lot more going on.
It's about understanding the why. The motivations, the underlying reasons. And she really emphasizes this multifaceted nature of infidelity.
Right. It's rarely just a simple act or a single choice. Yeah.
The usually a complex web of emotions, unmet needs and specific circumstances. Yeah. So, for instance, someone might be feeling incredibly lonely in their relationship and also have this, you know, unmet need for adventure or novelty.
And maybe they're going through a midlife crisis. Right. Or a big career change or the loss of a parent.
Right. Like all of these things kind of come together. They all factor in.
Right. And so it becomes so much more than just like a right or wrong decision. It's about understanding the context.
Right. And Imperil, she really emphasizes that. She does.
And she also brings in this really interesting historical and cultural perspective. Yeah. You know, pointing out that the meaning and impact of infidelity has changed over time and across different societies.
It's so true. Like if you think about, you know, different culture. Totally different expectations.
Right. Or different time periods. You know, infidelity meant very different things.
Yeah. In some cultures, it's a huge taboo. In others, it's more accepted or even expected.
Right. And she says that, like, you know, our modern understanding of it is really shaped by this ideal of romantic love, which is, you know. This fairy tale idea that we've all been sold.
Right. And this expectation that, you know, one person should fulfill all of our emotional, sexual, intellectual needs for like our entire lives. Which is a lot to ask of one person.
It's a lot of pressure. It is. Right.
And so when those expectations aren't met, you know, maybe that creates these vulnerabilities. Right. Like cracks in the foundation.
Right. And so speaking of, you know, things that have kind of changed the landscape of relationships and really complicated our understanding of infidelity, we have to talk about the digital world. Oh, yeah.
That's a whole other layer. Right. Technology has completely transformed the game.
It has. And Peril really dives into this. And she talks about how technology is kind of this double edged sword.
On the one hand, it's made it way easier to cheat. Right. You know, social media, dating apps, all these online platforms make it so simple to connect with people outside your relationship.
Right. You can literally have an affair from the comfort of your couch. Right.
And it can start so innocently. Just a few messages here and there. Right.
And then it escalates. Right. And it's also really blurred the lines of what we even consider infidelity.
Right. Absolutely. Like what even counts as cheating anymore? Right.
So, you know, it's like a really intense late night text exchange with someone, an affair, even if it's not physical. Right. Or what about sexting or watching porn together online? Right.
Are those betrayals? Or even just having an active dating profile while you're in a relationship? Right. Peril doesn't give us all the answers, but she raises these really important questions. Because it's not always clear cut.
It's not. And she says that, you know, these digital interactions can really feel like a profound breach of trust. Even if they don't involve physical contact.
It's about the secrecy and the emotional connection. Right. And then the other thing that technology has changed is discovery.
Oh, yeah. Right. The digital age makes it so much easier to find out about an affair.
Right. It's not just about finding a lipstick stain on a collar anymore. Right now, it's about finding explicit texts or emails or a secret social media account.
Right. Or, you know, going through someone's browsing history and seeing that they've been on dating sites. It can be devastating.
It is. And she says that, you know, this kind of digital evidence, it can be so explicit and so detailed. It's like death by a thousand cuts.
I can see that. Yeah. So we've talked about some of the really kind of difficult aspects of infidelity.
But Peril also talks about this emotion that we often associate with it. But don't really examine that closely. And that's jealousy.
Jealousy. It's a powerful emotion. It is.
And we tend to think of it as a purely negative thing. But Peril suggests that it might actually serve a purpose. She says it can be a signal.
Yeah. It can show us what we value. So, like, how does that work? Well, you know, when we feel jealous, it's often because we're afraid of losing something or someone that we care about.
Right. So it can actually be a sign that we're invested in the relationship. Right.
So it's not necessarily a bad thing to feel jealous. Right. It's what we do with that jealousy that matters.
Right. And she also points out that different cultures view jealousy in very different ways. Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah. In some cultures, it's seen as a sign of love and passion. Really? Yeah.
Like, if you're not jealous, then you don't really care. Wow. But in other cultures, it's seen as a sign of insecurity and possessiveness.
So it's all about the cultural context. Exactly. So I guess the key takeaway here is that, you know, jealousy is normal.
It's a natural human emotion. Right. But it's how we manage it that really matters.
Right. Instead of letting it consume us or lead to destructive behavior. Right.
We can use it as an opportunity to communicate with our partner and address any underlying issues. Right. So if you're feeling jealous, talk to your partner about it, figure out what's going on.
Exactly. Don't just bottle it up. Right.
OK. So let's say infidelity has happened. You know, the, you know, the proverbial, you know, what has hit the fan.
Right. Peril really guides us through that incredibly intense emotional terrain that follows the discovery of an affair. It's a really rough time.
It is. And she says that there's such a wide range of reactions. Yeah.
Everyone responds differently. Right. Some people might feel intense self-blame.
Oh, yeah. Like, what did I do wrong? Right. Questioning their own worth, you know, feeling like they weren't enough.
And that can be really damaging. It can lead to depression. It can really hurt your self-esteem.
Absolutely. And then other people might feel just as overwhelming anger and a desire for revenge. Yeah.
Which is understandable. Right. Like you want to lash out.
You want to hurt the person who hurt you. Right. But revenge rarely makes things better.
Right. It usually just prolongs the pain. Exactly.
And then, of course, there's also just the shock and disbelief. Right. Yeah.
Like, how could this happen? Right. Your whole world has been turned upside down. Your sense of reality is shattered.
Yeah. And Peril really cautions against those extreme reactions. Yeah.
She says it's important to process those emotions in a healthy way. Right. And she suggests, you know, finding a therapist, a counselor.
Someone you can trust. Right. Someone who can really help you work through all of those really intense feelings.
And she also emphasizes the importance of self-care. Yeah. Taking care of yourself during this really difficult time.
Absolutely. And if both partners are willing, you know, she says open and honest communication is crucial. Yeah.
Even though it's probably the last thing you want to do. Right. It's so hard.
It is. But it's essential for healing. And this kind of brings us to a really big question that a lot of people have after an affair.
And that is, you know, should you tell your partner? Oh, that's a tough one. It is. Right.
Like, if you've had an affair, do you disclose it or not? And Perel doesn't give us an easy answer. Because there's no right answer. Right.
It's so individual. And she talks about how there are potential benefits and risks to both sides. So on the one hand, honesty can be really important for rebuilding trust.
Right. And it can also be a way for the person who had the affair to kind of clear their conscience and take responsibility for their actions. Right.
But on the other hand, you know, disclosure can be absolutely devastating. Yeah. It can completely shatter your partner's world.
It can. And it might be the thing that ends the relationship. Right.
And if you have kids, it can really complicate things. Absolutely. So Perel says that, you know, when you're considering disclosure, there are a lot of factors to think about.
Yeah. Like, what was the nature of the affair? Right. How long did it last? Is your partner likely to find out anyway? Right.
And what are your motivations for wanting to tell them? Right. Are you doing it for them or for yourself? And she also says that, you know, full disclosure isn't always the only path forward. Right.
There are other options. Yeah. Like, you could end the affair and recommit to your partner without telling them.
Right. Or you could go to therapy to work through your own issues. Right.
And maybe you can try to rebuild trust and intimacy gradually without a full confession. It's a really personal decision. It is.
And one of the most surprising things that Perel talks about in the book is that, you know, affairs don't always happen because the relationship is unhappy. Oh, yeah. That's a myth.
It is. Right. We often assume that if someone cheats, it's because they're miserable in their relationship.
Right. But Perel says it's not always that simple. Right.
And she explores all these other motivations. Like a desire for self-discovery. Yeah.
Or a need for excitement or novelty. Right. Or maybe they're going through a midlife crisis and questioning their identity.
And there's also that element of transgression. Right. Oh, yeah.
The thrill of the forbidden. Right. The secrecy, the risk, the feeling of breaking the rules.
It can be intoxicating. It can. And and she also says that, you know, even in good relationships, there can be unmet needs and desires.
Right. No one person can fulfill all of our needs all the time. And this kind of leads into another really important point that Perel makes, and that is this disconnect between love and desire in long term relationships.
Yeah, that's huge. Right. So, you know, you can love your partner very deeply.
But that doesn't mean you always want to sleep with them. Right. And she talks about how, you know, there's this tension between the comfort and intimacy of a long term bond.
Right. The familiarity, the security. Right.
And the excitement and novelty of new encounters. The spark of the unknown. Right.
And she also points out that, you know, our cultural assumptions about male and female sexuality can be really oversimplified. Yeah. It's not as simple as men wanting sex and women wanting love.
Right. Human desire is way more complicated than that. It is.
And she talks about how, you know, context plays a big role in shaping our desire. Absolutely. Things like stress and fatigue can really impact our libido.
Right. And then on the flip side, novelty and excitement can sometimes heighten desire. So it's not always about the person you're with.
It's about all these other factors. Exactly. So what can couples do to bridge this gap between love and desire? Well, Perel suggests open and honest communication.
Always a good place to start. Right. Talking about your desires, your fantasies, your needs.
Right. And even the things that might feel uncomfortable to talk about. Yeah.
Vulnerability is key. It is. And she also talks about the importance of creating space for individual growth within the relationship.
Right. Having your own interests and passions. Right.
And pursuing those things. And then doing new things together as a couple. Yeah.
Like trying a new hobby or taking a trip. Anything to shake things up. Right.
So we've talked about infidelity as this kind of individual act. But Perel also kind of zooms out and looks at the bigger picture of monogamy. Yeah.
How it's changing and evolving. Right. And she talks about how, you know, monogamy isn't this fixed or universal concept.
Right. If you look at different cultures in different time periods, there have been so many different ways of structuring relationships. Right.
And she says that, you know, lifelong sexual exclusivity is actually a pretty recent ideal. Yeah. And it's not the norm in many parts of the world.
Right. And we're also seeing, you know, more and more people exploring alternatives to traditional monogamy. Like open relationships and polyamory.
Right. And she says that, you know, modern monogamy faces some unique challenges. Yeah.
Like longer lifespans. Right. We're living longer than ever before.
So we're potentially committing to one person for like 80 years. Which is a long time. It's a really long time.
And our expectations for relationships have also changed. Yeah. We want our partners to be everything to us.
Right. Our lover, our best friend, our therapist, our intellectual equal. A lot of pressure.
It is. And then there's technology. Oh, yeah.
The constant temptation. Right. The endless stream of potential partners.
Just a swipe away. It's a whole new world. It is.
So Peril asks, you know, is traditional monogamy even realistic or sustainable for everyone? That's a good question. It is. Right.
And she talks about these alternative models like monogamish relationships. Where there's a little more flexibility. Right.
Or open relationships where, you know, there are clear agreements about outside connections. Right. The key is communication and consent.
Absolutely. And so finally, Peril talks about the legacy of an affair. Yeah.
What happens after the dust settles? Right. She says that every affair is a turning point and it can really redefine the relationship. Sometimes for the worse, but sometimes for the better.
Right. So sometimes it leads to the end of the relationship. Which can be heartbreaking.
It can. But sometimes the relationship actually survives. And it can even become stronger.
Right. And she talks about how, you know, the factors that influence this recovery process are really important. Like the nature of the affair, the level of communication, the commitment to rebuilding trust.
Right. And she says that some couples actually find that going through this crisis together brings them closer. Yeah.
They develop deeper intimacy and better communication skills. Right. And they come out of it with a renewed appreciation for each other.
And even if the relationship doesn't survive, the lessons learned can be really valuable. Absolutely. So as we kind of wrap up this Book Bites, you know, what are some of the big takeaways from the state of affairs? Well, I think the biggest one is that affairs have a lot to teach us about relationships.
That's a good one. Right. They force us to confront these really difficult questions about desire, commitment, betrayal, forgiveness.
Right. And to look beyond those simplistic judgments. Exactly.
Like Perl says, understanding infidelity doesn't mean justifying it. Right. It's about having compassion and empathy.
Yeah. And another quote that I really loved is, jealousy is the shadow of love. Oh, that's a good one.
It really reframes jealousy in this interesting way. Yeah. It shows that it can be a sign that we care.
Right. And Perl offers a really broad definition of infidelity. Yeah.
It's not just about sex. Right. She says it's about any breach of trust.
The secrecy, the emotional connection, the betrayal. And she talks about how infidelity can trigger all these really intense emotions. Like disbelief, shame, self-doubt, anger, sadness, confusion.
It's a roller coaster. It is. But she also emphasizes the potential for growth and healing.
Right. And she gives us this framework for navigating the aftermath. Like creating a safe space for processing those emotions, exploring the reasons behind the affair, and then envisioning a new future together.
And she talks about how jealousy can actually be a catalyst for change. Yeah. It can reignite passion or help us address underlying issues.
Right. And she challenges us to really think about self-blame. Yeah.
To understand the difference between taking responsibility and blaming ourselves. Right. And she offers all these really insightful explanations for why affairs happen.
Like sometimes it's not even about the relationship itself. Right. Sometimes it's about self-discovery or cultural influences.
And she really stresses the importance of open dialogue. Communication is key. It is so overall, you know, the State of Affairs is a really thought-provoking and insightful book.
It's a must read for anyone who wants to understand the complexities of modern relationships. Absolutely. It challenges our assumptions about fidelity, commitment and desire.
And it really leaves you with a lot to think about. It does. It makes you question everything.
So if you're interested in learning more, we highly recommend checking out the State of Affairs. You won't regret it. And if you enjoyed this Book Bites, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of our future episodes.
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